The Iraq War
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This page contains the comments about the War with Iraq. To add your own comments, write to discussion@norfolknet.com.
6/11 3:16pm DAF: Thank you for that lead-in to my nomination for my favorite post, which was one made by ME, on 3/20, in the middle of the war, before all these doubts about the presence of WMD's came up: What are the Vegas odds on whether our troops find Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq? I am very skeptical about this. Despite 3 1/2 months of inspections, the inspectors never found any evidence of WMD's, and the intelligence provided on this by the U.S. all turned into dead ends. Blix was quoted yesterday making some skeptical comments about the presence of WMD's. If we fail to find any WMD's (or any more than minor leftover odds and ends, such as mustard gas), will Bush apologize to the Iraqi people for launching an unjustified war?This was made at a time when no one else on the Board, including yourself, was questioning whether the WMD's existed. This was a character judgment on my part. I judged that Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powell et al, were more than capable of twisting the truth, or even outright lying, to achieve their warlike objectives. Anyone remember the Tonkin Gulf Resolution?- WJB To me, the real issue now is not whether or not the Iraq war was a good idea with the benefit of hindsight. Reasonable people can differ on this. I personally don't think that our declaration of war against the Muslim world will ultimately prove to have been a good idea. Perhaps I will be proven wrong. However, the real issue is the increasingly apparent fact that our President is guilty of lying to us and the world, or at least twisting facts, in order to achieve his warlike policy objectives. This is intolerable. Richard Nixon was forced to resign for less. Clinton faced impeachment for lying about sex. This is far more serious, because the implications of the actions that were based on the lies is far more serious. This situation absolutely demands a congressional investigation, and if it doesn't take place the Republicans in Congress have committed another crime for the sake of their party loyalty. - WJB
6/10 10:23pm DAF: Coincidentally, a friend just e-mailed me the text to the following link, Is There Anything Left That Matters? by Joan Chittister, OSB. I think it expresses your sentiments quite eloquently and provides us all something for thoughtful reflection. - TMB
6/10 3:47pm There's life in the old thread yet. Information spilling forth about the Bush administration's intentional deceit -- I would like to hear from neighbors about. Watergate was an office break-in. We all know what brought Clinton/Gore down. These impeachable offenses pale in comparison. Bush, Cheney, and their appointees launched an attack on a nation under false pretenses, costing thousands of lives and billions of dollars. They lied to us to convince well-meaning people to support a war that was not necessary. Innocent people died. If the MA Daily Lottery were revealed to be fixed, people would be marching in front of the State House. That's just money. These are son, daughters, mothers, and fathers killed to prove a political point. -DAF
5/30 5:30pm Wm... Putting the the phrase 'die a natural death' and the name Borelli in the same paragraph is a dangerous thing. Hmmm, tempting. I will refrain from making any tasteless remarks. Let's throw Borelli back on the main page and educate everyone on what a gem of a developer he is. As far as a non-resident writing in, is that such a big deal? My sister who lives out of state reads the website. She visits our fine town at least 4 times a year too. If she wrote in, would her posting be disallowed? - KW
[9:34pm It's not that it's such a big deal, but ... it sort of is a big deal. Whether a non-resident's post is allowed or not depends a lot on context. Informative posts, generally useful or interesting to residents, would most likely be allowed (we've posted pretty much all the "searching for relatives" and "hello from afar" type messages we've received).But on a mostly opinion-and-attitude page like this one, non-local opinions would just dilute the local voices. The objective of this web site is to create an on-line community for Norfolk, Mass., not just to provide a forum for general chat. Chat is welcome as long as it's local, and in some cases of major importance even if non-local so long as it's by locals. There are many automated message boards and discussion groups on every conceivable topic of interest where anyone is free to chime in, where that same opinion could be voiced. But that sense of community, of belonging, of recognized initials and personalities, of not just having opined but having been listened to -- that comes from low volume, high-quality messages and a narrowly focused audience. In effect, the quality that makes the board an attractive place to post -- a respectful, attentive readership -- is only possible by limiting participation, and the limit we've chosen is locality. Then there's the practical aspect -- we maintain this web page, and the forums, by hand. We read every message for spelling and content, and post them on-line one at a time. We do this for our neighbors, because we find it fun, because they find it useful. We take the time to fix spellings, reply to e-mails, compose reponses to questions, and help out with the occasional odd question -- all of it possible because we only have to handle the traffic of one small town in a small state in the nation. And we like it that way :-) - Wm.]
5/29 1:48pm Mea culpa, mea culpa maxima. The thread seemed to have shuffled off this mortal coil when I picked the scab. I apologize. In the words of Chief Joseph, I will fight no more forever. Indeed correct, time to move on. In that spirit: DD or KK? Never had Krispy Kreme. Me (and my cardiologist) eagerly await their local appearance. Bigger MBTA lots or smaller cars? I note with great joy the appearance of the first Toyota Prius in the resident lot. How about ticketing those scofflaws who park on the road? Let's start there! Should we buy water from Franklin? Actually, and I think I saw this on Superfriends once, we could get a bunch of big helicopters and go grab an iceberg, and put in "The Hole Formerly Known as Kingsbury Pond". That'd give us water for years. Will Borelli get to Heaven? Norfolk is Heaven. And finally: was that David Forrester profiled in the Metro yesterday as doing such good works Norfolk's own? And if so, Huzzah and Congrats David! And so it goes.... - RG
5/28 6:25pm In response to WJB - "Is France obligated to Kowtow to the U.S.?", "Does France have to do whatever we want at the U.N. b/c we saved them sixty years ago?" and "Because we are bigger and stronger?" - In a word YES! Oh, and for the sake of historical accuracy, we began bailing France out in 1917 with $3 billion in aid prior to our military involvement!! Also - it rings hollow when France accuses the U.S. of purely "imperialistic motives" and the desire to "exploit the Iraqi people for their oil reserves". Perhaps France should consider its own history and ask the people of the former regions of Indo-China and the Congo how they feel about imperialistic and opportunistic nations. Those regions didn't have a dictator in charge with a documented history of torture and murder. Why don't we ask the Kurds in Northern Iraq if they think Saddam has biological weapons and would use them? Oh yeah - they probably won't respond because 100,000 of them are dead and the remaining 4 million or so have learned what happens when they defy Saddam Hussein without the military might to back themselves up!! Not only should France kowtow to the United States - the whole U.N. Security Council should follow suit!! The United States certainly does not need the U.N. - but the U.N. certainly needs the United States. Bush, in fact, is the historical exception in his request for U.N. support prior to engaging in armed conflict!! It was a courtesy and his patience was admirable!! We contribute an obscenely disproportionate amount of worldwide aid, military equipment and personnel to EVERY conflict and/or causes deemed deserving by the U.N. and have done so without fail. Perhaps if the United States is so fit for condemnation we should pull out of the organization that has done little for the benefit of the U.S., with the exception of bolstering N.Y.C. coffers with parking ticket monies, and leave the United Nations in the hands of its "moral superiors". Hey, you never know, perhaps without the participation of the U.S. it will be as successful as the League of Nations was!!! - DD
[The above message is from a non-resident. Responses are discouraged, and follow-ups will not be posted. For mysterious reasons, it was permitted under some hypothetical and non-existent equal-access policy that permits conservative viewpoints extended rights to rebut the Webmaster and the liberal leanings of this page. (I suppose anti-establishmentarianism can be classified as liberalism under the current administration; under Clinton it would have been conservatism. The labels may change, my attitude remains constant.)Come on, guys, this thread almost died a natural death! Time to move on to more exciting topics! Like, Krispy Kreme or Dunkins? Bigger MBTA lots or smaller cars? Should we buy water from Franklin, since they're sucking us dry anyway? Will Borelli get into Heaven? - the Webmaster, aka Wm.]
5/28 1:57pm RG, of course it is true -- Bob Geldof really did say that the Bush Administration's aid to Africa was better than the EU's or Clinton's. It doesn't make it so. He is, sadly, "off his trolley." Or, he is trying to use praising the Bush Administration as a tool to shame the EU into doing more. The rest of the aid community has expressed shock at the comment since they have been beating on Bush for 2 years to do more. Read The Congo Test. Bush used Rwanda to try to guilt the world community into supporting his war (even though he opposed US involvement in Rwanda), and now he is letting another genocide take place. Who is trying to stop the genocide? The nasty French. Why aren't we joining them? No oil (I'm guessing). This is the man who is saving Africa? I think not. - DAF
5/28 9:49am Interesting piece in the Guardian [article] about the Bush Administration's Africa policies. Could President Bush actually be doing something right?!? Heaven forfend! Hey, if it's in the Guardian it must be true! - RG
For the older messages, look here.